Pastor Bert Spann, of Hohenwald First Baptist Church, takes listeners inside the discipleship and evangelism process that has led to more than 100 people being saved, baptized and set on the road to discipleship in 2018.
FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Narrator: Welcome to Radio B&R, a podcast production of the Baptist & Reflector, the official news journal of the Tennessee Baptist Mission Board. Radio R&R, keeping Tennessee Baptists informed about the issues impacting their lives and churches.
Chris Turner: Hi, and welcome in to this edition of Radio B&R. I’m your host, Chris Turner, and today I’m speaking with Bert Spann, the pastor at First Baptist Hohenwald, Tennessee. Bert, thanks for the opportunity to talk with you.
Bert Spann: Thank you very much. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Chris Turner: Well, your church has been quite busy this year and had quite an interesting year. Just talk a little bit about what you’ve seen God doing in and through your congregation.
Bert Spann: All right. It kind of started at the very end of last year, where there was an influx of what Jesus would call the Harvest. Our church has been working with clients from Buffalo Valley Rehabilitation Center. It’s a rehab center for addicts. Ever since I’ve been here, the past five years, we’ve had clients come and be a part of the Sunday services. It’s been an exciting part of having them here, but we’ve not really seen a whole lot of evangelistic fruit until the end of last year. We had a gentleman give his life to Christ, and whenever he did, everything just busted loose. This gentleman’s name is Brian, and when Brian came to know Christ, the lights went on with him, but it was as though the Lord turned the lights on down at Buffalo Valley. Everybody he came in contact with, he wanted them to hear about Jesus and what He could do in their life. That kind of started the ball rolling in the gospel actually just penetrating the darkness down there. And so, since the end of last year, I would say there has hardly been a week where we’ve not been baptizing folks because the harvest is coming in.
Chris Turner: Yeah, it’s been interesting to be here this afternoon, and be shooting some video for a video that we plan to show at the Summit in November of 2018, and just what God’s been doing through just that ministry. I think as much as the harvest that you all have seen reaped from that, it’s what you all have sown that I think is really a critical part of it. You guys have obviously invested a lot of effort in just sharing the gospel. Obviously that’s the thing where the harvest comes from, is you guys are sowing gospel seeds. Just talk a little bit about just the way that whole thing has caught fire in your church.
Bert Spann: Okay. If I may, I need to go back a little bit further than five years. Whenever I was in the interview process with this church, being First Baptist Church, county seat. Okay? Hohenwald is the county seat for Lewis County. Being the county seat, First Baptist Church, there has been a culture here where people dress up nice, they get in their Sunday best, and they come to church. And I’m not saying that that’s necessarily a bad thing, but there was a culture here where those who don’t have their best felt like they couldn’t come here. And whenever I was in the interview process, one of the things that the committee said was, “Listen, we don’t need you to come in and always wear a shiny suit.” That’s not who Hohenwald is. We have a very poor economic base here. There’s no industry, so to speak, to draw folks in, and so what you have here is a blue collar base. And First Baptist Church, historically, was more of a white collar feel.
Bert Spann: And so, whenever I interviewed here, they said, “Listen, there’s times where you just need to wear jeans, and you need to help set the culture for we’re going to reach people of Hohenwald and Lewis County, not just those who are like us.”
Chris Turner: Yeah, so just really kind of change that whole vibe of the church.
Bert Spann: They wanted the culture change to say, “Listen, it doesn’t matter what you have, or where you’ve come from, the Jesus we worship is the Jesus that’s offered to you also.”
Chris Turner: So, there was this feeling of inaccessibility at First Baptist-
Bert Spann: Absolutely.
Chris Turner: And they really wanted to see that be more of a, we’re a church open for everyone.
Bert Spann: And I’ve even heard it here myself, especially in the early years, people say, “Oh, that’s that big church downtown. I can’t go there because I don’t have nice enough clothes.”
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: It’s not about how you dress to come here, but at the same time, if you’re lost and on the outside, you don’t know that that culture has changed.
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: And so, it takes a real heart change here, not just clothes change, but a heart change to say, “We’re ready to go out there and reach folks where we’re at.”
Chris Turner: Yeah, and you know, it’s interesting, and of course we’re shooting this video, talking with Tommy [Hart 00:05:58], who is one of your laymen who is really heavily involved in evangelism, and then just hearing him talk about some of the other men that are involved now, but that really started with really discovering that some of these guys had been believers for decades, and had never shared their faith, or seen anybody come to Christ. Just talk a little bit about the culture change that’s taken place in those guys specifically, but it sounds like across the church, there seems to be this momentum about just evangelism and laymen catching a vision for sharing the gospel, which we’re actually all called to do.
Bert Spann: Well, I’ll just be honest, my heart’s passion is to build disciples. That was Matthew 28, Jesus’ commission was to build disciples, turn people into what Jesus turned His men into. You can do evangelism and never disciple somebody.
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: But, you cannot disciple somebody and miss evangelism.
Chris Turner: That’s good.
Bert Spann: And so, evangelism is part of what it means to be a Christ follower. It’s not an either/or, where you’re stuck in the classroom, teaching, or you’re trying to force curriculum down somebody’s throat, it’s a matter of taking these guys in the church and saying, “Come with me. Let me show you how this is done.” So, that’s really been the culture here at our church is, “Come with me, and let me show you how it’s done.” You mentioned Tommy, now he was our youth minister when I first came here. It was nothing for Tommy to be seen with groups of kids, or some kids, and going to a parent of one of the kids, and sharing Christ with them. And so, that culture has been here of, come with me, and let me show you what it looks like to share faith.
Chris Turner: You know, we talk about one of our big emphases that we have in Tennessee is Win Tennessee. With really that being the term that if we want to see the spiritual climate in Tennessee shift, because right now, statistically, about 60% of people that live in Tennessee have no relationship with Christ. If we want to see that shift, we talk, at the Tennessee Baptist Mission Board about the five objectives. The first of that five objectives, seeing at least 50,000 people a year come to Christ, save, baptize, and set on the road to discipleship. Well, as Randy talks about that, that 50,000 is not an arbitrary number. That’s the minimum to keep up with the population growth in Tennessee, to not see Tennessee slide even more into a position of being more spiritually lost.
Chris Turner: And so, it’s obvious that the pastors in our state are not going to keep pace with the population growth, if evangelism falls directly on them. And you’re talking about the importance that, being a disciple, you can’t not be an evangelist. What are some things that we really need to look at across our state, just from a pastoral perspective, or a church perspective, to see a shift where people are catching that aspect of their discipleship?
Bert Spann: If I may illustrate, this past summer, I planted a garden. We live in a neighborhood, so it was a tiny garden. We had tomatoes and squash and cucumbers. I got lots of tomatoes. I got no squash and cucumbers. Because in the particular bed that I was growing the squash and so forth, I didn’t tend it. I didn’t take care of the bugs. With the tomatoes, I would cut the suckers off. With the squash, I just let it go. I’m guessing, I’m gut honest with you, it was just laziness.
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: If a farmer cultivates the soil, keeps an eye on the pests, he does not make the garden grow, he simply gives the garden its best shot to be healthy. And then God makes it grow.
Chris Turner: Something biblical about what you’re saying there. I think I’ve heard that type of thing before.
Bert Spann: I’m telling you, it is not my responsibility to make the church grow. It is not my responsibility to save people. It is my responsibility, as a pastor, to create the most healthy culture possible, and Jesus, in us, will see the lost saved. Now, the problem that we have in our church gardens, those bugs and disease and so forth, one is laziness. That is absolutely killing us. We are lazy when it comes to the things that the Lord has told us to do, and/or we are busy in the areas that He has said avoid. And so, we’ve got our priorities all messed up.
Bert Spann: But, if I may be so bold as to say, many of us pastors … and I’m putting myself in this … we have a serious pride issue. And if you want to see a pastor’s pride, go to places where pastors hang out. We nominate people for certain positions because we say, “Hey, this guy baptized so many people this year.” Guess what? That pastor, he may have baptized that many people, but he did not do all the work. He did not lead all those people to Christ. He is not discipling all those people. Yet, the pastor oftentimes wants the credit. And that’s going to leave you with a discouraged workforce. I would liken it to say, imagine if you did all the work, but then your boss came and took your paycheck at the end of the week. That would get old-
Chris Turner: Real quick.
Bert Spann: … at some point. You would eventually say, “Okay, I’m going to leave this company and go somewhere else.”
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: You want to know why churches are having a problem with people not staying in one place? It’s because they’re not deeply satisfied, because oftentimes the pastor’s pride is stealing their check.
Chris Turner: Wow.
Bert Spann: We are leaving the work to one man, or a group of people, who are your spiritual elite.
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: We, as pastors, are called Ephesians 4, to invest in our church. We are to make [inaudible 00:13:12]. Our job is to make absolute craftsmen out of the body of Christ. It’s my job to equip them to do the work of ministry.
Chris Turner: Yeah. So, if you’re a pastor, and you kind of see yourself, and kind of have gone down that road, and it may just be that it’s migrated that direction, and you look around and you see that your church is not nearly as involved, what’s maybe one or two things … I mean, you came into this situation, and you had a vision for really developing that kind of a church, where the discipleship work was that you invested in them, and then you wanted to see them rise up, and they have. What’s one or two things that maybe a pastor can do to kind of make that transition to get back to?
Bert Spann: Whenever I came here, in the interview process, they knew that disciple making was my passion. We’ve got a church of 200ish. I’m not saying that for any reason other than it’s just fact, that is about how many we run … did then. Whenever I came, I said, “Listen, I know some of you want to be discipled, if you want this, I will give you everything I have, but you have to do what I’m calling you to do. And if you stick with me, you will not recognize yourself in five years. I promise. If you’ll give me five years, you won’t recognize your old self.”
Chris Turner: Wow.
Bert Spann: Now, if a pastor wants his church to change, open it up so that your life becomes completely transparent for everybody who says, “Yes, I want to follow.”
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: They watch you share your faith. They watch how you’re a husband. They watch how you’re a father. You teach them in private moments or small groups, and as the shepherd, if I’m going to give myself to that kind of experience, then I have to do it on their schedule. So, yeah, my day starts at 4:00 in the morning, because there are some groups that I have to meet with starting at 5:30 because these guys have to go to work. So, if you want to see the culture change in your church, the pastor has to become vulnerable and say, “I’m going to give you everything I am. Your responsibility is to follow me.” That’s what Jesus did.
Chris Turner: Okay, so you’re making that investment, the 4:00 mornings, you’re five years down the road, what is the joy? What is the … now you’ve cultivated the garden, where do you see your joy coming from now that you’ve cultivated for five years?
Bert Spann: Paul writes in 1 Thessalonians all right, “You, my joy, and my crown.” If you look at the original text, the word “you” is the major emphasis there. You are my joy. I look around and I honestly think the Lord could take me off the scene right now, and everything that He has called me to do, I would be deeply satisfied that it’s done. Now, I’m not asking the Lord for trouble. I’m not asking to be removed. I’m not asking to move. I’m just saying, He has given me the opportunity to invest everything I am here. And I look at those who took that challenge. I look at those who I’ve invested into, and they could perpetuate this long after I’m gone. And, they’re even able … as you mentioned Tommy Hart a while ago. He’s investing into a group of guys on Sunday nights who they now are doing this. He’s taught them how to share their faith. They’re going out into the communities. I’m not even in that group. They’re doing what I have encouraged and empowered him to do. Go for it, man. And so, now I’ve got children, and grandchildren, and great-grandchildren in the faith, and that’s what investment is.
Chris Turner: Yeah. When you look at just kind of that mobilization of the kingdom workforce that’s in your pews, what is one or two things that you might share? I think that we have a lot of people in our churches that have been told for years and years, you need to evangelize, you need to evangelize, and they know they need to, and a lot of them feel bad for not doing it, but there’s a hurdle there. Maybe they don’t know how to share their faith. Maybe they’re introverted. I mean, there’s a number of reasons. What is a first step you would recommend, as a pastor, for somebody who knows they need to do it, they just … they can’t get … They don’t know where to start. How do we get somebody to move that first step?
Bert Spann: First step, go to Walmart. Just go to Walmart. Go to the county fair. Not trying to be mean, but go where you can find the oddest people you can possibly come across.
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: And ask God … I’m being serious. Go to Walmart. Go to the county fair. Go wherever. Ask God, would you please give me a love for them rather than eyes of belittling them. I’m telling you, you’ll see some real freaks at Walmart.
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: When is the last time we’ve gone to Walmart, and instead of snickering at what they’re wearing, or saying, “Hey, look right over there. I didn’t mean stare, I mean …” When’s the last time we said, “God, You paid full price for that person, and I am so sorry for the way I have thought about them in the past.” Love is something you can’t teach. It’s got to be caught. And it’s going to start … talking about winning Tennessee, it’s not going to start until we love the Lord our God with all of our heart, and love our neighbor as ourself. It just won’t happen. I don’t care how slick our evangelistic approach is, people can tell if you don’t love them. When is the last time you loved somebody no matter what they looked like, no matter how bad they stink, no matter how filthy their sins are … I don’t mean were, I mean are … and say, I’m going to do everything I can to give them Jesus.
Chris Turner: Yeah, and I think that’s one of the things that we were talking about before we started doing some video interviewing was just that really this church in particular catching that vision of loving God and loving people. It really does come down to what you said, when Jesus was asked, “So, what’s the greatest commandment?” He talked about loving God and loving people, “Love your neighbor as yourself.” The two really are opposite sides of the same coin. You can’t love God if you don’t love people. And if you don’t love God, it’s hard to love people. And so, to get those two things in that right order, it really sounds like that is really a transition that we need to really make, as Tennessee Baptists.
Bert Spann: Tennessee has some real weirdos. I’m just being honest. I grew up in Arkansas, I’ve lived in Michigan, lived in Tennessee. Arkansas, Michigan, Tennessee, we all have weirdos. We all have those odd ones. And then, I look at me, and most times I judge others by me, but I’m not the standard. Jesus is, and His holiness is. And if that’s the case, it doesn’t matter that I grew up in a Christian home and that I didn’t come from the background of these addicts, I’m just as filthy. And as I’ve told a lot of these guys that we work with from Buffalo Valley, and I also go to the jail on Fridays. I say, “Guys, the only difference between me and you is you got caught, I didn’t.”
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: I mean, there’s things that I have done that if the police had have been at the right place at the right time, I’d have been on the other side of that jail cell. Or, if you looked at my heart, and you read Matthew 5 and 6, I’m just as guilty. Or, what if there was a new law that said gluttony is a five-year felony, 10 year felony? What if bitterness would get you a 15-year sentence?
Chris Turner: Wow.
Bert Spann: Now I’m telling you the only difference between me and you is they’ve got laws against what you’re guilty of, what your addiction is. They just hadn’t slapped those laws on me yet. We’re all in the same boat, man. We are all messed up.
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Bert Spann: And until you see people as co-equals in this fouled up world, and not, oh look how bad they are compared to me, we’re not going to see Tennessee won. Except for the grace of God, we would be right where they’re at.
Chris Turner: Yeah. I think, you know, as you talk about that, I do think sometimes the longer we continue on in our Christian life, we become a little bit detached from remembering what it was like to be spiritually desperate, and asking the Lord to help us remember what it was like to be in that person’s situation, and remember it wasn’t us that saved ourselves, but it was God who saved us. We might have been the cleanest sinner out there, but we’re still a sinner. And everybody has a need of the same salvation, regardless of where you are. You guys are doing a great work here with these guys that are experiencing addiction, but I think you’ve hit on it, and a couple of the other guys that we interviewed have hit on it as well, in that without there being some spiritual intervention, everybody’s experiencing that same lack of hope. I mean, just talking with Brian, one of the guys that came out of heroin addiction, just the joy and the lightness and the light that is in him, as a result of having encountered Christ, is contagious.
Chris Turner: And so, I just look at that and think, man, you guys are getting to see that every week, and I really do hope the same thing for churches across our state, that they’ll get to experience those baptismal waters being stirred, as a symbol of just the regeneration of life. As we kind of wrap this up, as you kind of look out there and just kind of see Hohenwald, what is your vision for this community?
Bert Spann: My vision for this community is what I’ve prayed ever since I started ministry. My prayer, when I first started ministry, was, “Lord, I want whatever church You send me to, to be the place where you train special forces believers. I want You to bring people here so that they are thoroughly equipped to send them out there to the tough places.” So, my vision for this community is this becomes a place where God sends people, much like Brian, in his lost-ness, sees him come to know Jesus Christ as his Lord and savior, gets equipped, and will continue to be sent out. I don’t know if that’s long-term or short-term, but I want the Lord to say, “Where could I send people so that they’re thoroughly equipped for wherever I’m going to drop them off? Oh yeah, Hohenwald is where they need to go.” So, this becomes the recruiting grounds, the training grounds, for world impact.
Chris Turner: That’s awesome. And just looking down the hall, I mean, you guys are obviously doing mission work around the world, so it’s not that you’re just focused here, you guys really do have a global focus, and it sounds like from talking to some of your guys, that they really have caught a vision for a global impact. You know, the Lord doesn’t really need a whole lot of anybody’s resources to accomplish His work, what He needs is willing hearts. So, you guys are obviously in that. Well, man, I really appreciate just some time to be here today, and to be able to work on the other project that we’re working on, but to talk to you. Thanks for being with us today.
Bert Spann: Thank you very much. It’s been my pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Radio B&R, a podcast production of the Baptist & Reflector, the official news journal of the Tennessee Baptist Mission Board. This, and other episodes, can be downloaded at baptistandreflector.org/radiobr. The ministries of the Tennessee Baptist Mission Board are supported through the cooperative program, and guests receive, through the Golden Offering for Tennessee Missions. For more information, visit tnbaptist.org.