Chris Phillips is young, successful and was on the upwardly mobile professional path, but he walked away from it all to plant churches in Colorado, and extremely spiritually dry place. Why would he take his family and do that? The answer may surprise you.
TRANSCRIPT:
Chris Turner: Hello and welcome into this edition of Radio B&R. I’m Chris Turner, Director of Communication at the Tennessee Baptist Mission Board. Today we’re talking with Chris Phillips, while here at the Southern Baptist convention in Phoenix. Chris is a native Tennessean, but is also a church planner, so Chris …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: Welcome.
Chris Phillips: Thank you. Good to be here. Thanks for having me.
Chris Turner: Great. Well, just tell us a little bit about where you’re from, and kind of how the journey that at least brought you to, where we are today.
Chris Phillips: Yeah. I’m a native Memphian, so born and raised in Memphis. Went to Christian Brother’s High School there in Memphis Tennessee. Grew up in that area, and I tell a lot of people, you can know that I love the lord, because I went to the University of Tennessee in Knoxville after that, and so, went over there to Knoxville, lived there for about eight years, and was in pharmaceutical sales there, after graduation. Met my wife there, who is a native Knoxvillian. She went to Farragut High School. Tennessee runs through and through in our bloods. Our boys bleed orange. They don’t know anything else, other than Tennessee football, which doesn’t seem to be good right now. We’re telling them it’s ups and downs. We’ll get past that. After my wife and I got married in Knoxville, we moved back to Memphis. Moved back to Memphis, was looking for a church home, quite frankly, neither one of us really grew up in a church home. We knew after we got married that we really needed to get plugged in to get our marriage right, to get the foundation back to where we knew it needed to be.
We landed, lo and behold at Bellevue Baptist Church in Memphis, Tennessee. Quite frankly, we got there … One of the number reasons we got there, is cause there’s a huge young marriage department that was there, where we could really do life with people that were in our same stage of life. We needed to look eyeball to eyeball with people, holding each other accountable, find out the ups and downs of marriage, and how that played out with the gospel, and what the gospel said about marriage and honoring your spouse.
We ended up at Bellevue, and we’re there for about 10 years, up until here we are now, Coloradans, about a week ago. We’ve moved to Colorado, Denver, Colorado to plant a church. It’s a long journey to there, but I would say that a lot of that started with the equipping and encouragement, and the work of the lord in us, through our time, serving at Bellevue, just regular lay leaders, and deacon, serving on ministry teams there, and …
Chris Turner: That’s one of the things I was going to ask you about. When you moved to Memphis and are looking for a church, cause you know your family needs to be involved …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: That seems to be, kind of on the front end of understanding what it means to be a believer …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: to now. Here we are a decade later, you’re actually going into church planning so …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: What was it the lord, kind of did in your life, cause you also worked there with young marrieds …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: And had some other responsibility there in the church. What was the transition there that kind of led to that point?
Chris Phillips: Yeah. You know for the first three, or four years, while we were there, we were just lay leaders and serving, and quite frankly, the lord just kind of impressed a desire and a heartbeat on us that we couldn’t extinguish for a call to full time vocational ministry. During that time, I knew … I’m a learner. I’m a studier. I love people that go through the proper processes to do things, so I went to seminary, during that time as well, while I was in medical sales. Went through seminary, and at that time, Bellevue actually had an opening on staff, for young couples and recreation ministry, which were two things that we had served in, in the church for a really long time.
They took a chance on me. Guy with no ministry experience to oversea the recreation ministry and then the young couples, which were the young marrieds, engaged, newlywed, and kind of new parent couples. And so, really, honestly it was a dying to self. We were in medical device sales. We were serving. We were doing the things that we wanted to, but we just had to take a step of obedience, when god was prompting us to take a step of faith, to let us know that he’s in charge.
We did that, and … You know, step of obedience at Bellevue’s a lot different than some other churches. I mean, it’s a very large church with a lot of resources …
Chris Turner: Right.
Chris Phillips: But, still for us, it was a huge step of obedience to go from the marketplace into full time vocational ministry. Honestly Chris, I think a lot of that started by just small steps of obedience prior to that, from getting involved in a small group at the church, from serving at the church out in the community, and then the city, from doing things that we knew that we needed to do anyways. Those small steps of obedience really, fast forward to where we are now … One of the steps, we did a church plant mission trip in Seattle. If I had to really pinpoint where god really started wrestling on my heart, it was probably doing that mission trip, to work with the church plant in Seattle, and just to see how ministry, and mission was lived out on an, every day basis, in a context, way different than the bible belt that we have in the state of Tennessee. And so God really worked on me there.
Chris Turner: Well that’s one of the things I was going to ask you about, is we do have a great … Within Tennessee, we really are starting to see more and more of an emphasis on people wanting to go into church planning. It sounds like the big decision to become a church planner begins with serving in your local church. You mentioned some of those types of things of just looking for opportunities to not only serve in local church, but also look for that exposure, ministry opportunity to actually what church planning is.
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: What else, types of things do you feel like …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: Folks that are thinking or contemplating about, or maybe feel like the lord’s wrestling with them in church planning.
Chris Phillips: You know, I think he who is faithful in the small things, are gonna be faithful with big things. I don’t think, if I’m not serving my city, then it’s gonna really hard to go somewhere else and serve. Quite frankly, it’s easy to go to Seattle, where I don’t know anybody, to go and serve the city, and serve the community there, where my fears are washed away, because I know that in a week, I’m leaving.
When I’m in my city, that’s where god really started impressing upon us, so we go to Seattle, and it really changed our kind of methodology for how we do ministry. We saw messiness. We saw real relational evangelism, that quite frankly was just void in our life at that time. And so, we had to create margin in our lives, so that we could relationally evangelize people, so that we could even build relationships with the people that were believers. How deep were our relationships at Bellevue? Or, were they just Sunday morning, you know, Wednesday evening type of relationships.
From that timeframe, it really began investing in our neighborhood, investing in the relationships that god had given us. Then, trying to find ways to get outside of our church walls, and really build relationships with people that were unchurched. And so, those small things really, quite frankly what they do is they start growing a passion in your heart for more, and more, and more.
Over the course of a couple years, my wife and I really just evaluated where we were, with how we were living on mission currently where we were. I just don’t think that be a leader in an organization, and not be a leader at home. I don’t think you can be a leader in Denver, Colorado, where we’re headed to, if I’m not first a leader in living out what I wanna live out there, in Memphis Tennessee.
It really started with living out, what I felt god impressing upon our heart, in Memphis, before he really even grew that passion and burning desire to do it in a lost area.
Chris Turner: Well, you also mentioned … I thought it was interesting. Say a little bit more about it. You realize that you weren’t creating margin to … I think a lot of people will kind of, not necessarily hide behind, but they talk about how busy they are, “if I had more time to do that.” It sounds like that was an intentional decision to stop doing some things, to be able to create that ministry margin …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: In there. One of the things that we see and we’re encouraging … We’re seeing a lot of churches embrace it, is getting beyond their walls and into their community.
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: It sounds like that just doesn’t happen.
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: That sounds like an intentional thing.
Chris Phillips: Yeah. You have to be very intentional. Quite frankly, there’s a guy named, Ben Mandrell, who’s a church planter, and pastor in Denver, Colorado that we’re gonna be underneath and honestly … About three years ago, I had a conversation with him, about men’s ministry in a church. During that conversation, Ben kind of radically changed my mindset. This is just after I had gotten back from Seattle. One of the things he said, “Is everything you say yes to, is a no, to something else. You can say yes to some really good things, to some things in your life that are really, really good, but every time you say yes to that, you’re saying no to some things that probably could be better.” I’m a big believer in a centralist mentality.
We need to scale back everything, so that we can focus on the things, god’s uniquely gifted us in. For us, my wife and I had to take a look at our calendar’s, take a look at our schedules, and say, “What are we saying yes to that are good things, that not are the best things we can do.” I believe god gives us a unique gift in some things, that we’re really good at some other things. We’re average in things, and we’re bad at some things. I think too many times, we say yes to the good things, and the things that we’re really good at, but we’re saying no to the things that god has uniquely gifted us in. And so we just kind of had to evaluate, what are the things that we’re uniquely gifted at, that god has given us that we have said, no to, because our busy schedule?
A lot of times churches are the ones that are making our schedules busy. We’re doing really good things, like Wednesday night, equipping, and Sunday. Sunday night. Tuesday visitation and things like that. Sometimes that ruins the margin our life to even know our neighbors name.
Chris Turner: Yeah.
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: I hear intentionality. I hear you really looking at the calendar and seeing where that margin can come out to really be effective, either locally, neighborhood, or within the city. What else do you feel like somebody who might be considering church planning?
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: What’s the mentality other than crazy for a church planner? What is it, maybe in their personality, in the chemical, in their calling. What is it that really a, mentality a church planner needs to have?
Chris Phillips: Yeah. You know, I think a go-getter is something you need to have. I don’t know any other way better to describe it, than just to be a go-getter. Things are not given to you. You know, I come from a church that has tons of resources, tons of resources in terms of people and money, and programs and everything else. The thing is, is when you’re church planning, you are the resource. You are the one that’s going out and getting those. You have to be able to wake up, and just get after it. It’s kind of en entrepreneurial mindset. You’ve gotta be thinking constantly about what is next, and how you can cast the vision towards what god has laid on your heart. Quite frankly, it has to 100% just be a reliance upon the lord.
I think NAM, the North American Mission Board, does a fantastic job in vetting their church planters and their church planter assessment. You’re looking eyeball to eyeball with men and women that have planted churches, that are gauging you on nine categories. Some of those are your marriage health, your family dynamics, your leadership ability, your call, and your ability to cast vision, your ability to preach. They are looking at several things that … You can’t fake it. You can’t look at somebody and say, “You know it would be really cool to go out to Denver and plant a church.” If that’s the mindset that’s not there, you really 100% have to have that Isaiah 6:8 kind of moment, that says, “Here I am lord. Sin me. I can’t do this. I can’t do it on my own, but I’m relying 100% totally one you, and your ability and your gifting in me.”
Chris Turner: Let’s flip it just a little bit. What can a church do to encourage the development of church planters, and then in support of church planters?
Chris Phillips: Yeah. I think we were a part of a process of a very organic leadership development process at Bellevue. We came as just a husband and wife that needed to be more involved. We were equipped through small groups, through promptings to serve through those people in small groups, through serving and becoming a deacon, through people investing in our lives, from being in a staff meeting. We kind of went through this natural progression of a leadership pipeline.
One of the things … I was telling somebody the other day. One of the things that keeps me up at night is, we are fortunate by gods hand, and his sovereignty, and his divine appointment for us to be church planters. I wonder how many more churches could be producing church planters or pastors, if they were very intentional in their leadership development process. If they were looking at young and up and coming people in their church, and giving the ministry, quite frankly, before they’re ready. Ephesians 4:11 – 13 says that we are to equip the saints for the work of the ministry, so that we have unity and maturity.
Quite honestly, a lot of times, we wait until that maturity is there, until we give the ministry. Well, all of us sitting here, would say that we’ve been given ministry before we were ready to have it, and so I honestly was just given way too much ministry before I was ready. That brought a maturity, and brought a development process in me, where god began to work and work and work, until it grew a passion that I couldn’t turn down. And so, I wonder how many churches, if they were intentional in their leadership development, would have more and more people coming out of their churches, to start more and more churches.
Chris Turner: Yeah, so really, for a church to see itself as a sending, is what we’re called to do anyway …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: as believers, great commission. But, then to really be intentional is what you said. I mean, it sounds like the intentionality of being both a planter and an equipper.
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: You’ve been in Denver about a week or so now.
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: Really haven’t had time to really get fully settled in everything, but what are some ways that people could pray, not only for what lies ahead for you, and your family …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: but, maybe for Denver in General. Tell us a little bit about that.
Chris Phillips: I tell you, the biggest piece of partnerships for church planters, is their prayer piece. NAM is doing a really good job with praying for planters in the website that they’ve created. Our pastor of the Southern Baptist Convention, Doctor Steve Gains, is a huge proponent of prayer, that’s what our convention is about this week.
Quite frankly, there’s not a whole lot of church can do that is going to do anything that even scathes or touches the surface of praying for church planters. There are spiritual warfare that we never know that happens. There are instances, and occurrences. There are resources and timing that are not gonna be available. I fully believe … Dr. Gains says this all the time. There are some things that are gonna happen whether or not we pray, but I fully believe that there are some things that happen when we pray.
What you can do for the most part is pray for church planters, pray for their families, pray for transition, pray for partnerships, pray for mission trips, pray for the financial needs that are going out there. And then, Denver specifically in the greater Denver area, there’s 4.2 million people and 90% of those are unchurched. We don’t need bigger churches in Denver. We just need more churches to fill communities and so, what we really need is just open doors and access to gospel conversations with people in the city.
Whether they know it or not, god loves ’em. God desires that all of them should be saved. Those prayer conversations for those gospel conversations only open when we are so wholeheartedly investing, in fervently praying for those conversations to happen. Even if you’re in Knoxville, Tennessee, or Nashville, or Memphis, or Jackson, or Duisburg, or wherever you are … Even though you may not be able to go and plant a church, or be a part of it, or financially give the way some other churches can, your prayers are much more sufficient and doing more for the church planters than anything you could possibly think of.
Chris Turner: Yeah. It sounds like just those things that you suggest for praying for, Denver is a great place for people to start in their own community …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: Just like you started in your own community and just finding ways to serve locally and then within your community, that led to something bigger.
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: People that pray for those gospel conversations to happen right there, that leads to a larger world view, and you start to see, kind of [inaudible 00:16:16] …
Chris Phillips: Yeah.
Chris Turner: Obviously Denver falls somewhere along that spectrum.
Chris Phillips: Yep.
Chris Turner: Well, Chris, blessings on you and your family. Thanks so much for taking a little time to talk with us today.
Chris Phillips: Thank you Chris.